Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter
Let us be clear Pseudonym as someone living in the North I have clocked your not so subtle dog whistle appeal to the authentic white working class - the sort of appeal that Nick Griffin is not averse to making. Unemployment, lack of social housing, poor wages blight Northern towns like Preston, Bradford and Oldham and they fall hard on all sections of the Panic At The Disco Too Weird To Live Too Rare To Die class and they fall the hardest on the Asian working class communities especially those descended from Pakistan and Bangladesh.
White and Asian working class people are all in it together against Cameron, Clegg and the bosses busy trashing their lives even more. Your daft whine reduces itself to the argument that the white working class have been let down by That really is narcissistic! One of the Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter problems 'white working class' people face in towns like Preston, Bradford and Oldham not coincidentally, that's almost a tour guide to recent EDL riots and provocations Terry Durham Crystal Telephone being treated as having 'white working class' interests which divide them against non-white workers.
Racist scum would like nothing more than to help the Tories out by splitting the working class in two Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter that, turning white workers against their Asian, Muslim, Black, etc. That would let the real enemy - those currently planning billions of pounds of cuts in welfare, social services, the NHS and education, and mass redundancies - off the hook completely. As for whether it's worth addressing Fascists and Racists in neo-Folk, my philosophy is that if someone shits all over my house I try and clean up Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter whole mess, not just the biggest turds.
I'm taking it for granted that no Aphrodites Child Its Five OClock here other than Pseudonymous believes that what is being said is that Occult Nazi musos can be criticised but the BNP and EDL should be left Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter.
As the saying goes, it's possible to fart and chew gum at the same time: obviously Fascism should be opposed in culture, in politics, on the streets, and wherever else Shock Angel Face RERB stick their head over the parapet.
And as for anti-Fascists being nice, well-behaved and middle class - tell it to AFA. I'd like to go back to David Tibet. Whether or not he is a fascist, he is clearly complicit in covering up for fascists like Tony Wakeford.
Take what Graeme quotes and I'm sure Graeme quoted it in good faith, but what Tibet writes isn't in good faith : ""Hitler as Kalki" is prefaced with "To my father who fought Hitler" and the song is explained at the end of the lyrics note: this is the only song he explains as "Some people think Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter Hitler was Kalki, the tenth and final avatar or incarnation of the Hindu God Vishnu, who comes on a white horse to destroy the cosmos at the end of each world cycle.
Many British and American etc. Likewise it is possible to be a fascist and fight against Hitler because there are a variety of fascist doctrines and Hitler even had fascist rivals within the Nazi party, not just outside it.
Indeed, these fascist rivals to Hitler some of whom fought against him number prominently among the so-called 'second revolutionaries' who are obsessed over and admired by the various Death In June and ex-Death In June members and let's not forget in at least one case we are also talking about an s official National Front member Tibet has worked so closely with over the past 25 years.
Tibet dedicating this song to his father who fought against Hitler ends Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter being complicit with the arguments of those he works with who we know are fascists. Ultimately it is just part and parcel of the Tony Wakeford school of lying and omission, in other words the ridiculous claims along the lines of: "I can't Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter a fascist because my wife is a lesbian" - doh!
This has already been dealt with in some depth in the comments sections of other posts on this blog. Such sophistry may fool the odd naive neo-folk fanboy but it won't convince anyone who knows something of the historical reality of fascism. It is difficult to take Tibet seriously on anything, but especially his 'Christianity', since he seems perfectly able to claim to follow Jesus while remaining a member of the Crowleyite OTO.
There seems to be a certain amount of role playing going on here which dovetails both with that indulged in by Nazi Satanist groups like the Order of Nine Angles and various 'chaos magicians' a mix of non-fascists and Nazis, as well as former fascist activists like Ian Read who more recently have adopted crypto-fascist positions.
I don't think Tibet particularly appeals to Christians, but he does appeal to a small coterie of occultists, including Satanists and Nazi Satanists such as Boyd Rice who he has worked with and they are going to take him calling Hitler the anti-Christ as an endorsement of Nazism. Tibet's statement strikes me as disingenuous. He may or may not be a fascist but if he isn't then he should come clean about his involvement with various fascist musicians, explain his relationships with them in detail, and make a clear statement of opposition to racism Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter fascism.
Until he does this I think all anti-fascists should treat him with suspicion. As I've said, Tibet may or may not be a fascist, but he was certainly a fellow-traveller of the far-Right in the s and s. My impression of most so called anti fascists is of a bunch of violent prone middle class somethings acting out their RAF phantasies. I would tend to assume that this site aims to win over fence riding purchasers of post-industrial cultural products who gloss over the right wing themes in said products?
What leftists really purchase these albums? IMO you guys are over estimating Herbie Hancock Thrust influence of political ideologies on underground music culture and are not really looking at who really buys these records. These are the people who buy this music.
Anon If the people buying this music don't like the far-Right what are they doing with Evola books? What you seem to be saying is that most neo-folk fanboys are crypto-fascists. So, they think that "anti-Fascists are like, er, basically Evangelical Christians and, er, like, the extreme left is, like, totally the same as the extreme right, dude, because, you know, extremes meet". What are you trying to say? I was hoping for more than kids stuff like that, and I'm sure that Industrial has smarter followers.
One thing that that blog is right about is that posts about other groups, like Genocide Organ, would be useful.
Anyone care to write one? Cat: haven't you heard - Evola is a profound spiritual thinker. Yes, it's hard to believe, but there are people out there who take Evola's nasty, pseudo-philosophical idealist tripe seriously.
I assume that they don't read much else. I remember a time when Industrial culture was genuinely quite literate but now it seems awash with idiocy: I laughed at that part of Peter Webb's book where he talks about how neo-Folk fans consider themselves sophisticated and intellectually elite. Obviously they don't get out as much these days. It's Brown Book.
Herr Nebel - Thank you for your comment. I'm not entirely sure when Blood Axis first came to my attention, but certainly the hype about him increased in the run up to his first album in the mid 90s. I don't really give a shit what the correct title The Nu People Id Be Nowhere Today Down Georgia Way the Death In June album is.
I find it funny that as a fan of this music those are your only responses to my piece. Neo-Folk is white power for nerds. But Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter I was trying to point out is that no one on the left buys these CDs to begin with, and that the casual fans of the material who do buy some of these albums here and there goth club kids, black metalers, etc. Remember when you cast something the villain you make it cool. To the these fence riding apolitical fans Al Barry Morning Sun Im Not A King guys come off like X-Tians complaining about music being Satanic.
This essay here was the first one on this site that related someones concerns from a personal and non-preachy perspective and is most likely one of the best critiques of post-industrial culture out there. Who are you really trying Piero Umiliani Il Corpo Colonna Sonora Del Film win over Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter The left and overtly leftist scenes like punk already agree with you.
Thats who you need to win over. Apop Record. Owned by David E. Sections on right wing occultism next to fully stocked shelves of Tesco products. Hospital Productions. The degree that the far right as normalized itself is amongst these scenes is really extensive, to the point where its a given that its territory is apolitical to right leaning.
The left historically speaking had never been directly involved with noise, neo-folk or black metal, but the right has been integral to the creation of these art forms. Even 'Smash Hits' interviews went off on a tangent. Though my spidey senses detect a pattern of sexual frustration among neo-folk defenders, expressing itself mainly in terms of blow jobs. Is there anything special you would like to tell your fans here in Scandinavia? Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter Well, Swedish girls are hot.
I find it funny that as Philip Tabane And Malombo Malombo fan of this music those are your only responses to my piece" That's because people who are into this stuff are either racist or they don't care that others are.
It's not a secret or anything. Maybe a few of the top acts try to obscure the issue to cover up for protecting record sales, but the people who came after them knew that getting involved in this area of culture would get one branded a racist and obviously they don't care. It's funny that these critiques are never towards the people in post-industrial culture that are racially minded, weather personally or in their creative works.
Anon: In a sense you are simply confirming the analysis which says that neo-Folk is riddled with Rightist sentiment, covered up by apoliticism and a Libertarianism that says "anything goes". In fact you go further than I would, as I think there's a substantial number of people involved in Industrial, neo-Folk, etc. The picture painted above of the situation in America is exactly what can happen here and elsewhere if the right are unopposed. What I don't understand is your own position.
You seem to imply that it's simply not worth making a Left critique of neo-Folk because those involved are all either Rightists and Racists themselves or at least will defend the right against anti-Racist criticism. I don't accept that, not because I have done a big survey or something but because it goes against my personal experience. I've been in touch with many neo-Folk fans and musicians who are appalled at what goes on.
Or are you saying that, because the intended audience for the argument are hostile to the Left and anti-Racists, we shouldn't bother arguing? Do you think there is a better way of opposing the Right in these scenes? What is it? John: Well, those where the only things I objected to.
As someone who has accually listned to the music you are now criticising I think you are perfectly right to have an oppinion on the matter unlike some people who simply looks at an album and claims it to be fascist. That doesn't mean I agree with you though. Hi Strelnikov, I have a feeling this latest Anonymous guy is the same shit stirrer who is out gunning for Hospital Productions on other forums.
He was banned by Hospital for trying to buy multiple copies of their limited releases to sell them The Cautions No Other Way Poor Loser times the price on Ebay and Discogs. He has a vendetta against the label and will stoop to any level to get get back at them. Williams,Andrew King, quell, as all die, awen, cult of youth, the Lindbergh baby, Toroidh,folkstorm I'm not saying that leftists shouldn't be critical of this material.
I'm saying is realize who it is that is into this stuff. Obviously you're not going to win over the people who identify with the ideas behind this music. But you may convince the apolitical ones. Be careful not to alienate these people by making post-industrial culture seem cool because its "taboo".
One key difference between classical racialism and all these new school Satanic minded racialists is that they are really Satanic first and a lot of the appeal to them initially of racialism is its taboo Magic Sam 1937 1969. Especially sense a lot of Various Underground Belgian Wave Volume 1 people are former leftist punks.
Its like how many Satanists raised in strict X-Tian families end up having a fixation with breaking X-Tian norms, a lot of these people have former anarcho-punk baggage that they deal with by wallowing in Nazi taboo. IMO there are two things you should ask yourself- 1- How do we present our concerns with post-industrial Jeff Mills Waveform Transmission Vol 1 in way that people without specific politics aren't offended or alienated.
Do you know about the Iron Youth Reader? I mention this again to show how entrenched this area of culture is. These largely out-of-print works have been selected as a guide to assist Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter explorer of the taboo and left-hand paths. Neglected, infamous and infernal texts from philosophy, sociology, history and psychology are compiled, with blank pages for notes after each selection.
It is easy to get carried away with the connections people have and what they might be thinking without any particular evidence. You also find it hard to understand how people from different extreme political positions can move around together in the same scene. The Sunburst Band The Easton Assassin people are to explain all their actions then shouldn't Stewart Home explain why in he collaborated with Robert Forbes to give him information for a chapter on Crisis in his Death In June book "Misery and Purity" and also why in he interviewed David Tibet for Tony Wakefords "ON" magazine where by the way Tibet makes it clear that Hitler is Kalki is about Hitler as AntiChrist and his position is one of someone interested in religion Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter hates Hitlers and Nazi Germany's works and ideas.
It is also interesting that Anton Shekhovtsov is "friends" with Troy Southgate on his facebook site. So is this 'guilt by association' probably not, but Home has never publicly stated why he remained friends with the DIJ scene until the mid s and why he mentions them in his books until his more recent attacks on them - some of which may be justified? I am no sympathiser with the crypto-fascist element in Neo Folk but I have moved in those circles and know of some people who followed the path of literature and reference points and did end up in some form of far right politics.
I also know some that have nothing to do with the politics and enjoy the music. But I am not particularly interested in it now but feel that if you question some people you should also question those who also have 'links' to these people and get them to explain themselves. Ciao Dead Prez. I know it sold well, although it was withdrawn from some outlets. That would have been a dangerous magazine if it had continued, because those guys were hard core intellects and far more subversive than the pantywaists at Esoterra.
It was advanced elitist philosophy, but I heard a rumour that Combat 18 had been giving it out on football terraces Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter all places. C'mon John — you'd only buy Ohm Clock magazine and DIJ records if you were an occult Nazi and white supremacist — there's no other reason to get them, fuckwit! Face it, you're JUST like Stewart Home — an ex-fascist who wants to get off the Nazi bandwagon because it's not cool anymore and has become something of an embarrassment in view of your current ambitions.
Home sold Tibet's old racialist pamphlets to Housmans bookshop. You and this website were made for each other — it's just a way for elitist fanboys who wish to preserve their hateful attitudes, but now you do it by trying to out-theorize your former peers. You pathetic bunch of cunts! Get a life!
Thanks for dropping by and completely misunderstandng both my article and this whole site Neville. I've not been on the neofolk bandwagon for about 15 years and, as I say above, I've never been a fascist. Indeed the only proof you have of my involvement which extends to buying some crap records and fanzines in my twenties are my own words, above.
Clearly you have some argument with Stewart Home, I don't know what DJ Crystl Crystlize Deep Space is and I don't really care.
Dead Prez : obviously I can't answer for Stewart Home generally. I did, however, recently read the interview he did with Tibet for 'ON' magazine and I find it difficult to see how it could be seen as anything other than satire. My favourite bit was where Home compared Tibet's music to The Port Dukes and argued that it was funny novelty music. Actually I thought the sarcasm and satire was a bit too obvious and I was surprised he got away with it: maybe it's just that the people in this scene don't recognise satire when they see it?
Anyway, I'd hardly treat it as evidence that Home had any kind of sympathy with Tibet. It's fair enough that people should be prepared to explain their own position and history if there is any doubt about it, but Home has already discussed this history at some length on his siteand anyway has made his position today absolutely clear.
The idea that Home was at any point sympathetic to the Right-wing in neo-Folk or anywhere else just doesn't make sense: if he had been then he would have kept his mouth shut about the whole subject in order not to be compromised. Instead he has confronted this The Cannibals Get Funky at length.
I own many such books Boom The Voltsong Stepping Up To Zion pamphlets myself. It doesn't make me a Nazi sympathiser. It would be far more odd if any of us wrote about Fascism without first studying it. I asked Anton Shekhovtsov some time ago why he has Troy Southgate as a friend on Facebook and he says it was because he was in the process of interviewing Southgate and that's how he had contacted him.
Personally I think it's a mistake. What it doesn't mean, though, is that Shekhovtsov is in any way politically compromised. His stance against the right has Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter made more than clear in his various articles. Neither Home nor Shekhovtsov have anything to answer for in that regard.
The neo-Folk fanboys see all criticism as moralism, but the criticism on this blog is clearly political and not moralistic. The fanboys have a typically petit-bourgeois obsession with moralism they are obsessively against itand it would be a mistake to become as obsessed as they are.
Personally I couldn't care less if someone has a Fascist history or background as long as they have broken with it completely both ideologically and in practice and are not, like Wakeford, just trying to hide it while carrying on promoting more or less the same ideas in another form. Nobody had heard of that rag outside of chaos magick circles at the time, let alone since. All I can remember about it was an absurd article on eugenics and the usual run of the mill occult nazi nonsense.
It was indeed withdrawn from Compendium Books when they realised it was a nazi publication. This lead to the amusing spectacle of one of its "ubermensch" editors crying like a baby about being censored. Thanks for reminding me of it, the ridiculous mag and its po-faced contributors provided a some of us with a great deal of amusement at the time!
Thanks for the info regarding Satanist mag Harsh Reality. Not for what you say about it, which is neither here nor there, or your claims not to recall it you still seem pretty excited by it 15 years later. You've given me the last bit of proof in figuring out who is involved in composing this website. Obviously, it wasn't too hard to determine who would spend so much of their time putting together a voluminous website dedicated to feuds no-one in their Death In June But What Ends When The Symbols Shatter mind would care about.
But a word of caution with your enterprise — if you insist of making life awkward and possibly dangerous for people just minding their own business, you cannot be surprised if they revenge themselves on you. Your unread Marx and Hegel paperbacks will Soft Machine Seven provide a sufficient defence.
Oh, fer fecks sake, all of these 'arguments' are so absurd! David Tibet is just not, repeat not, going to cause kids to turn into jackboot wearing zombies, and encourage fascism! Troy Southgate and Wakeford probably have about ten fans, none of whom do anything much more scary than buying Ernst Junger books and reading Hilaire Belloc. Gnostic Neville said: "Home sold Tibet's old racialist pamphlets to Housmans bookshop.
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